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    • When a tuner pushes for a dyno 'record' - PTF BM3 tuned MKV 2020 Supra posts 485 rwhp B58 software only on E30

      Dyno records can be misleading. The truth is that most people regard tune X as better than tune Y if tune X is making more power. Unfortunately, most people just look at peak figures. PTF (ProTuning Freaks) is running around claiming a Toyota Supra B58 tuning world record with the dyno pulls below.


      Is PTF superior to every other tuner in the world? Of course not. Are they better than AMS Performance for example who got less peak horsepower out of their MKV Supra? Not a chance.

      AMS took their car off the dyno and proved their tune in the real world on the dragstrip setting the Supra 1/4 mile record. That is very different from increasing timing on ethanol to eek out some more horses to claim a record for marketing purposes.

      Tuners go about things in different ways. AMS Performance prefers to set records on the strip and this what real enthusiasts value. Real world, proven, performance.

      PTF already had B58 motor failures pushing OTS tunes. Their OTS tunes showed more peak power than most competitors. So what though if the engine did not hold together?

      Making power on a Dynojet which is not load bearing but inertia based is completely different from applying that power in the real world and more importantly having the motor last with the tune. Any tuner can hit this peak output with the B58 on the factory turbo like PTF did. There is no magic they found in the turbocharger. Maybe there is a reason literally all other tuners are not pushing to hit these figures?

      Is this a game of playing with the safety margin with some ethanol for Dynojet glory numbers or a real world proven reliable and sustainable performance level? Frankly, it needs to be proven off the dyno.




      This article was originally published in forum thread: When a tuner pushes for a dyno 'record' - PTF BM3 tuned MKV 2020 Supra posts 485 rwhp B58 software only on E30 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 20 Comments
      1. crapinternet's Avatar
        crapinternet -
        those numbers matter even less without a baseline.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by crapinternet Click here to enlarge
        those numbers matter even less without a baseline.
        It was omitted intentionally.
      1. lulz_m3's Avatar
        lulz_m3 -
        I’m still baffled by your repeated attacks on PTF. Most of them are nonsense.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
        I’m still baffled by your repeated attacks on PTF. Most of them are nonsense.
        What attack? And what nonsense?

        What do you disagree with here?
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        What attack? And what nonsense?

        What do you disagree with here?
        It's the snowflake decade. Not praising or agreeing with something = attacking.
      1. Eleventeen's Avatar
        Eleventeen -
        I would love to see logs. That is the best indicator of whether or not the tune is safe (for current weather & altitude, anyway). Otherwise, it is all just speculation. As far as performance, I agree the track is king!
      1. Eleventeen's Avatar
        Eleventeen -
        Also, Sticky, did you just throw down a $5,000 challenge to PTF and AMS for the best E.T. & trap at a track meet-up? Click here to enlarge
      1. Bowser330's Avatar
        Bowser330 -
        Waste of time...

        Corvette C8 > mk5 Supra
      1. lulz_m3's Avatar
        lulz_m3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        It's the snowflake decade. Not praising or agreeing with something = attacking.
        $#@! please. Go look at every post @Sticky made propping up PTF until they stopped being a vendor here. All of a sudden he starts releasing article after article claiming PTF is trash.
        @Sticky, like many have stated, its insavory to blame a tuning platform for the quality of tuners using it. PTF provides capabilities, you pick your tuner.

        If other tuning companies want to charge a premium to curate their tuners, so have it, but i dont see it as a requirement. People that are lazy and dont know $#@! about cars can continue to throw their money at people like Cobb. I'll glady choose a platform that allows me to either tune myself, or choose who i want to tune the car.

        Seems the problem is no one who can afford these platforms actually knows anything about tuning/the cars they are driving...

        Dzenno rose from the ranks of this very forum. Hard to believe people cant see what a great platform he made and support him for it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
        All of a sudden he starts releasing article after article claiming PTF is trash.
        Not true. I posted valid questions about their screening process after an engine blew. You act like I went and made the guy have his engine throw up its internals on the ground after he switches to what was a very early PTF OTS revision.

        You want me to what, look the other way? Seriously?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
        PTF provides capabilities, you pick your tuner.
        IT WAS A PTF OTS TUNE.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
        If other tuning companies want to charge a premium to curate their tuners, so have it, but i dont see it as a requirement. People that are lazy and dont know $#@! about cars can continue to throw their money at people like Cobb. I'll glady choose a platform that allows me to either tune myself, or choose who i want to tune the car.
        I'm not saying it is a requirement but it is perfectly fair to point out some outfits are more professional than others in how they go about business.
      1. lulz_m3's Avatar
        lulz_m3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Not true. I posted valid questions about their screening process after an engine blew. You act like I went and made the guy have his engine throw up its internals on the ground after he switches to what was a very early PTF OTS revision.
        Every tuner has blown a motor, either through their own fault or some other means. Alot of idiots out there not taking care of their vehicles that want to dump the blame on the tuner.

        Alot of people running ethanol on non ethanol rated injectors, but no one wants to point that out. Alot of reasons a motor lets go; to blindly blame the tune is intellectually lazy.


        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I'm not saying it is a requirement but it is perfectly fair to point out some outfits are more professional than others in how they go about business.

        Should i start writing blog posts about how $#@!ty your forum is since it doesnt have a proper mobile app?

        I really think you're being overly criticla for no good reason.

        If you decided to write an article pointing out the value of other tuning platforms that curated their tuners vs those who didnt, i could see that as beneficial to the community. You're just throwing stones while living in a glass house at this point. When i look around this place I see alot of dust on the shelves and cobwebs in the corners...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
        Every tuner has blown a motor, either through their own fault or some other means. Alot of idiots out there not taking care of their vehicles that want to dump the blame on the tuner.
        Do I not always point this out?

        That doesn't absolve bad tuning though.

        It's like you robbing someone and saying, hey, it happens to everyone.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
        Alot of people running ethanol on non ethanol rated injectors, but no one wants to point that out. Alot of reasons a motor lets go; to blindly blame the tune is intellectually lazy.
        Ok but that isn't what the owner said happened.

        This is what he said happened:

        So this is how it started I was doing a pull down the road using my new bm3 stage 2 tune I have an

        I started the pull at 50 mph and went to about 5500rpm before seeing a huge cloud of smoke out the back and what sounded like dropping a bunch of nuts and bolts on the floor
        That isn't the only PTF failure by the way where the OTS tune is a major factor.

        You seem to be going out of your way to defend engine failures, why? Shouldn't you be going out of your way to demand higher standard OTS tune testing?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
        Should i start writing blog posts about how $#@!ty your forum is since it doesnt have a proper mobile app?
        How does that make for $#@!ty content? What mobile device are you browsing on that doesn't work? My Ipad and Iphone both load the forum just fine.

        I am all for an app but I don't have a developer that can do it and it also costs money. Is it worth the investment? You tell me.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
        I really think you're being overly criticla for no good reason.
        I disagree.

        Here is what Mission Performance says regarding the B58:

        Unfortunately, there is much more power left to be had Safely since turbo is a limiting factor. Fuel pressures are steady, but after 6k we are leaving turbo’s ability to flow.
        They hit ~435 tune only which is where most tuners leave it. Notice the 'safely' part?

        Now, would you like to dispute their reasoning and if so ok let's have a discussion on where the B58 can be tuned to safely. Reducing safety margin for peak HP and hoping for the best is not a good tuning practice IMO.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
        You're just throwing stones while living in a glass house at this point. When i look around this place I see alot of dust on the shelves and cobwebs in the corners...
        Where are you looking? There are currently 1109 users online. 42 members and 1067 guests

        Also, you're the one throwing stones and not stating what you would like to see beyond a mobile app.

        Hey, when you build a forum that generates six figures, maybe then you actually can throw stones?
      1. M&M's Avatar
        M&M -
        Didnt a Bootmod Supra just run 10s?
      1. Tony@VargasTurboTech's Avatar
        Tony@VargasTurboTech -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M&M Click here to enlarge
        Didnt a Bootmod Supra just run 10s?
        Of course they did, this click bait post is abusurd, and outline Joe's ongoing beef with Dzenno. Not only did they run a 10's they have run mulitple 10 second passes and not only hold the dyno record, they hold the 1/4 mile record as well. These kinds of posts are why fewer, and fewer people hang out here...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tony@VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
        Of course they did, this click bait post is abusurd, and outline Joe's ongoing beef with Dzenno. Not only did they run a 10's they have run mulitple 10 second passes and not only hold the dyno record, they hold the 1/4 mile record as well. These kinds of posts are why fewer, and fewer people hang out here...
        Who said the software would wouldn't let you run X time in the 1/4 mile?

        The point I made regarding some tuners pushing lowering the safety margin for a record on the dyno stands.
      1. M&M's Avatar
        M&M -
        This is also what you said Sticky. I'm neutral here, just saying:

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        AMS took their car off the dyno and proved their tune in the real world on the dragstrip setting the Supra 1/4 mile record. That is very different from increasing timing on ethanol to eek out some more horses to claim a record for marketing purposes.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M&M Click here to enlarge
        This is also what you said Sticky. I'm neutral here, just saying:
        Absolutely. All the credit in the world but they didn't run 10's on this tune highlighted in the article.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M&M Click here to enlarge
        This is also what you said Sticky. I'm neutral here, just saying:
        It was TPG Tuning that hit that 10, not PTF.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tony@VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
        Of course they did, this click bait post is abusurd, and outline Joe's ongoing beef with Dzenno. Not only did they run a 10's they have run mulitple 10 second passes and not only hold the dyno record, they hold the 1/4 mile record as well. These kinds of posts are why fewer, and fewer people hang out here...
        This is why you don't run your mouth.

        This tune did not run 10's and was not run at the track.

        The car that ran 10's had a cat delete, removed rear section, and nitrous: https://www.boostaddict.com/content....d-now-10-7-128
      1. M&M's Avatar
        M&M -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Absolutely. All the credit in the world but they didn't run 10's on this tune highlighted in the article.
        My bad!