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Thread: Brand new Spec stage 1/steel SMFW slipping?!

              
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    Brand new Spec stage 1/steel SMFW slipping?!

    Ok so heres the story. I just finished a clutch in an E90 335xi. He had a Spec Stage 2 / Aluminum FW setup, lasted 1000 miles before it nuked the disc. Turns out the trans shop that did the work, forgot to transfer over the nub that sits in the flywheel to support the input shaft, and the excess slop ate through the disc and killed it.

    So we managed to find an oem flywheel, stole the nub out of it, and installed a brand new Spec Stage 1 with a Steel SMFW. Everything fit like a glove, trans slid right on and up against the block with zero issues. Pedal is slightly firm, way less than ACT but slightly heavier than OEM. The problem lies in the fact that the pedal engages high, and it does not grab...AT ALL. It will barely roll out in 1st and 2nd, and 3rd if you even try to barely accelerate it will just jump RPM.

    Are the flywheel step heights different from I/XI? Spec makes no mention and Ive done 6-7 clutches and this is the first Ive ever heard of anything like this. I am using the supplied Spec Throwout Bearing as well.

    What do you guys think? Trying to get some insight before calling Spec tomorrow...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
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    Ok so heres the story. I just finished a clutch in an E90 335xi. He had a Spec Stage 2 / Aluminum FW setup, lasted 1000 miles before it nuked the disc. Turns out the trans shop that did the work, forgot to transfer over the nub that sits in the flywheel to support the input shaft, and the excess slop ate through the disc and killed it.

    So we managed to find an oem flywheel, stole the nub out of it, and installed a brand new Spec Stage 1 with a Steel SMFW. Everything fit like a glove, trans slid right on and up against the block with zero issues. Pedal is slightly firm, way less than ACT but slightly heavier than OEM. The problem lies in the fact that the pedal engages high, and it does not grab...AT ALL. It will barely roll out in 1st and 2nd, and 3rd if you even try to barely accelerate it will just jump RPM.

    Are the flywheel step heights different from I/XI? Spec makes no mention and Ive done 6-7 clutches and this is the first Ive ever heard of anything like this. I am using the supplied Spec Throwout Bearing as well.

    What do you guys think? Trying to get some insight before calling Spec tomorrow...
    They are all the same as far as I and XI as far as the spreadsheet goes that I got from them. The difference is only between 2007-2009 models and 2010 different part number for the flywheels. I assume its because of the 6 vs 8 bolts on the flywheel but I'm not 100%.

    Is the release bearing/arm done for some reason?
    Click here to enlarge

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    guess itsbrokenagain Click here to enlarge lol
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    They are all the same as far as I and XI as far as the spreadsheet goes that I got from them. The difference is only between 2007-2009 models and 2010 different part number for the flywheels. I assume its because of the 6 vs 8 bolts on the flywheel but I'm not 100%.

    Is the release bearing/arm done for some reason?
    The plastic pivot is new (i always replace it), the TO bearing is a billet aluminum piece supplied by SPEC. Pedal feels fine? I guess Im gonna have to tear it back apart...hope its not a defective pressure plate.

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    What did Spec say?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
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    The plastic pivot is new (i always replace it), the TO bearing is a billet aluminum piece supplied by SPEC. Pedal feels fine? I guess Im gonna have to tear it back apart...hope its not a defective pressure plate.
    Did you replace the pilot bearing? I think something similar was claimed as the culprit because of a possibility of a bad pilot bearing with my CM setup.
    Click here to enlarge

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    if its slipping seems to be component dimension issue (if install was done right). Can you feel clutch pedal vibrating when engaged (not depressed)?

    Mines non-SAC and engagement is very high. I can barely depress the clutch and feel the TO bearing on the fingers... little worried how it will wear. Wish they made the TO a little shorter.

    Potentially the SAC adjustment??

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    Is the SPEC provided TO bearing the same as the OEM one? Last time I checked it was the same
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    Is the SPEC provided TO bearing the same as the OEM one? Last time I checked it was the same
    OE is plastic, spec is metal... I forgot to measure if there's a length difference. I also forgot to check disc splines, which seemed a little looser in tolerance with the install tool... this would be unrelated to OP's issue though. I'm still not sure if I'm pro or neg on the kit... only 80mi down so far.

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    So we pulled it back apart. TO bearing is putting pressure on the fingers by .015. .125 is needed for full disengagement. The CNCmachined bearing is not sitting back far enough to allow the PP to release. Also we realized that the lever has NO play whatsoever...usually it should have just a very tiny bit of slop if you pull the clutch slave and wiggle it around, but this one is bottomed out and still tight.

    We are sanding down the contact side of the TO bearing to allow it to sit deeper in the lever. Specs help was utterly useless, they said take measurements.

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    Who at spec did you talk to?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
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    Specs help was utterly useless
    Well that sucks...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
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    Specs help was utterly useless, they said take measurements.
    Yep - thats what they are good at doing, blaming the installer. Douche bags.

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    Ok so heres the results. TO bearing or Flywheel height is wrong...clutch is positioned too far out. When you go to put the trans on and snug the bellhousing bolts, the TO bearing compresses the PP, disengaging the clutch. We filed down the backside of the TO to gain more travel, no good. Clutch Lever bottoms out in the bellhousing, and bottoms out the slave cylinder, all the while STILL putting tension on the pressure plate.

    We pulled the steel flywheel out to measure the step height between his Aluminum FW and the Steel one.

    This guy isnt gonna be too happy...hes out $2600 in two Spec Clutches in 3 weeks. If its a defective PP im swapping out to an ACT setup and sending this $#@! back.

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    What is the PN on the clutch and on the FW? Is he sure he is using the correct LWFW for the clutch kit? There are 4 FW options and double of every clutch kit as I understand it. If you mix wrong that could be bad. Spec is notorious for being one of the worst clutch suppliers. I went with Stage 3+ only because the reviews were so positive for that specific clutch. Glad I did, I am liking it a lot.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
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    What is the PN on the clutch and on the FW? Is he sure he is using the correct LWFW for the clutch kit? There are 4 FW options and double of every clutch kit as I understand it. If you mix wrong that could be bad. Spec is notorious for being one of the worst clutch suppliers. I went with Stage 3+ only because the reviews were so positive for that specific clutch. Glad I did, I am liking it a lot.
    +1 make sure whoever supplied the clutch and flywheel provided them as a pair for either SAC or non-SAC setup..they can't be mixed...i'll check for you just give me the part numbers off the boxes...might be a shipping issue and i could totally see it happen especially if both weren't sourced together or from the same supplier..did you order direct from SPEC?

    Did the customer follow proper break-in? How come they went from stg2 to 1? What mods on the car?
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 01-17-2013 at 10:49 PM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
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    Ok so heres the results. TO bearing or Flywheel height is wrong...clutch is positioned too far out. When you go to put the trans on and snug the bellhousing bolts, the TO bearing compresses the PP, disengaging the clutch. We filed down the backside of the TO to gain more travel, no good. Clutch Lever bottoms out in the bellhousing, and bottoms out the slave cylinder, all the while STILL putting tension on the pressure plate.

    We pulled the steel flywheel out to measure the step height between his Aluminum FW and the Steel one.

    This guy isnt gonna be too happy...hes out $2600 in two Spec Clutches in 3 weeks. If its a defective PP im swapping out to an ACT setup and sending this $#@! back.
    sending it back for what? they wont refund your money

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    +1 make sure whoever supplied the clutch and flywheel provided them as a pair for either SAC or non-SAC setup..they can't be mixed...i'll check for you just give me the part numbers off the boxes...might be a shipping issue and i could totally see it happen especially if both weren't sourced together or from the same supplier..did you order direct from SPEC?

    Did the customer follow proper break-in? How come they went from stg2 to 1? What mods on the car?
    It was completley assembled straight from SPEC. The first clutch blew up because the previous shop forgot tl transfer the centering pin from the OEM flywheel. Im sure you noticed that when you did your correct? When that is not there, the input shaft on the trans is allowed to flex freely, especially when the pedal is depressed while shifting...the disc had crazy wear on half of the flywheel side, which made it out of balance and shake like crazy when pressing the clutch pedal.

    Car is stock btw, no mods. Oem clutch lasted 55k miles. Customer followed the proper break in and did not beat om it at all for the first 800 miles. He did say it got progressively worse as he drove it until it slipped like crazy and he couldnt even drive it.
    Last edited by Itsbrokeagain; 01-18-2013 at 12:32 AM.

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    Problem seems to be fixed. We were on the phone with Spec for a while, they were helpful with the measurements and everything checked out. Only thing they could offer was a shorter TO bearing with a height of .090 (the one in the car was depressing the PP at .109"). Since their fix wasnt going to work, we had the machine shop across the street chuck it in their CNC machine and shave it down .218", to clear the .109" interference, plus an additional .109" for some free-play on the TO bearing lever. Gonna see if we can get it back together tonight/tomorrow and take it for a spin.

    We also deducted that his previous clutch suffered from the same issue, which contributed to the premature wear.

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    How did they remedy the problem financially? New clutch for free or?

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    Maybe all of their clutches should see this change to the TO or pressure plate
    Click here to enlarge

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    So far car drives great. Just a little bit of rattle from the flywheel, less than the aluminum one.

    For everyone else i would double check the TO bearing specs...SPEC said they can do nothing at this point, so the owner is possibly going to go after them for labor damages and at least reimburse for the clutch setup.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
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    SPEC said they can do nothing at this point, so the owner is possibly going to go after them for labor damages and at least reimburse for the clutch setup.
    They wont do anything - I wasted so much time and effort trying to get them to refund a single dollar (I was out thousands) and they won't admit their mistakes or sloppy tolerances (which is what my mechanic pointed out as the reason for the pre-mature failure on my car). Again, I will continue to warn people about SPEC's actions in the case that anyone ever experiences technical issues with their products. They are NOT reliable at all and won't have your back. This posters experience confirms my accusations and its a shame that they are sticking to their old, sloppy ways of running a business.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bulldog x6 Click here to enlarge
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    They wont do anything - I wasted so much time and effort trying to get them to refund a single dollar (I was out thousands) and they won't admit their mistakes or sloppy tolerances (which is what my mechanic pointed out as the reason for the pre-mature failure on my car). Again, I will continue to warn people about SPEC's actions in the case that anyone ever experiences technical issues with their products. They are NOT reliable at all and won't have your back. This posters experience confirms my accusations and its a shame that they are sticking to their old, sloppy ways of running a business.
    What a shame. I wanted to do this setup on my friends 335...dont know if i want to get him one. The steel flywheel is a plus, perhaps i will order that separately

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    I mean, modifying the TO was where you went wrong though. You can maybe still get parts back, but almost no one will refund for labor ever. Sorry to hear it. I will hit up David and see if this affects the Stage 3+ setups. Just remember, Spec does have one of the worst clutch reputations out there. That being said it only takes one clutch design that works on this platform to make it work. So far my Spec 3+ is perfect and I can definitely recommend it. Cant comment to the other models.

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