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  1. #826
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    you act as if i dont see how your days/nights are filled. forum maintenance during the day, drunken stoopers at night. If my only job was forums, i would care enough to showcase my writing ability to people i dont personally know or care about, a little better
    Now you're taking things a little personally and that's upsetting. Drunken stupors? I'm in my 20's and I got out and enjoy myself. I take care of my business and I think partying it up a little during the New Year and holiday period is perfectly warranted. Is the website not running perfectly? Are new articles not written every day?

    Please debate the topic, it's disappointing to see you go this route out of frustration.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    because it makes less than comparable V8's.. duh.
    Which one?

    It's making more power than any other production V8 in its same displacement range.

    Here's a stock LS2 6.2 liter:

    Click here to enlarge

    334 wheel horsepower. The M3 makes more power with 4.0 liters than 6.2 liters. WTF are you talking about? That's a much larger motor and the M3 is making more power with a better curve. Not underpowered, incredibly impressive.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    hats why the P65 is being referenced every other comment, not the s65.. p65 has enough, s65 does not
    The P65 is being referenced to show you how robust the architecture is. If you want more power, the motor is capable of far more power. What are you having trouble understanding?

  2. #827
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
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    Some find it too hard or too expensive to mod the S65 for street racing.

    But fact remains the S65 has won races and championships against bigger displacement V8 competition. Including LM's glorious 5.0, he holds in such high esteem.
    This. THIS FTW.

  3. #828
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
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    What did you end up with? I'm betting a e46 m3 ;-)
    99% certain on the E46 M3, its just too damn gorgeous of a car and the S54 is such a mature platform. I have located a really clean one in Canada but the guy is on crack with his price. I am starting to look at US importers because it seems there is a 3-5k premium on Canadian market E46s. I need to do the math on import costs vs. price delta to understand if buying a US car is right.
    2015 F82 M4 - DCT - YMB
    | Stock for Now |

  4. #829
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
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    I mean it really isn't just the motor... I think what the S65 and S54 have over the N54 is simplicity. They were built with a port injected fueling system that made is much easier to tune and supply necessary fuel. If the N54 was built the same way; we would be seeing 1000+ WHP cars left and right now. I think this is why some many companies stayed away in the beginning. If we had a big turbo N54 running on straight E85 with double pumper walbros; we'd be set. That or Rocket Fuel a'la Supra. It really is a near identical motor to the RB26DETT and 2JZ... other than the closed / open deck stuff. The platform however just isn't nearly as good as a GTR for example.
    Correct. Better fueling system for high revs. The N54 is built as an economy motor. It shows in the internals and the block itself. It's designed for MPG first and foremost. The S65 is designed as a race motor. It's completely different philosophy, engineering, and built quality. It's not even comparable.

    People are basing quality on raising boost. And they don't even see the problem with that which is even more absurd.

  5. #830
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Please debate the topic
    right, the topic, according to you, is that the s62, and s54 are superior to the s65.. oddly, thats nowhere near what was said..
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    It's making more power than any other production V8 in its same displacement range.
    whats with you and this class warfare? where did i say for "displacement"? its an V shaped 8 cyl.otor.. thats the class. not my fault they chose NOT to add displacement to get the needed power goals to make a a fearsome car..
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    334 wheel horsepower. The M3 makes more power with 4.0 liters than 6.2 liters. WTF are you talking about? That's a much larger motor and the M3 is making more power with a better curve. Not underpowered, incredibly impressive
    http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...T/SCAN0013.jpg
    damn! 377 STOCK!! 430 N/A MODDED!! DAMN, SUCH A WASTE OF A MOTOR!


    Click here to enlarge

    DAMN!! WAAAAAY MORE POWER STOCK, AND ASSLOAD MORE TUNED!!?? HOW SO?

  6. #831
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    once again, your comparing race cars to street cars. the car itself is fine. the motor sucks in power. fact. get over it
    What is the fact? You aren't showing any facts. You really are hurting yourself as you are appearing incredibly ignorant and just somewhat plain stupid to everyone.

    C5 Z06 stock dyno, M3 matches it in power despite not having 5.7 liters:

    Click here to enlarge

    Here's a stock 6.2 liter LS2 out of a CTS-V:

    Click here to enlarge

    Here's an E39 M5 S62 with modifications, this is a 5.0 liter V8, the M3 matches it in power with 4.0 liters completely stock:

    Click here to enlarge

    Here's a hemi 5.7 liter dyno, the S65 makes more power:

    Click here to enlarge

    Here's a Mustang Cobra 4.6 liter V8, look at how much more power the S65 is making despite its displacement disadvantage:

    Click here to enlarge

    Here's a B7 RS4 which is the actual competition, not even worth mentioning in comparison:

    Click here to enlarge

    So what are you talking about? The M3 has more power than a whole host of V8's. Actually, all of them being larger. If you want more power, the architecture supports it in then some. Don't you understand that if a smaller motor is making more power than larger motors it must be a fairly good design? And the M3 is making more power than some MUCH larger motors.

    What you are looking for is the S85 V10 in the M3 for naturally aspirated performance. Well, that just isn't possible because it would step on the toes of the M5/M6. BMW did not produce the car with straightline aftermarket performance in mind. However, if you are into that the motor is more than capable of holding its own unless 600 whp on stock internals isn't quite enough. If it isn't, what is?

    The problem isn't the S65 v8, it's you.

  7. #832
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    Yes, there will always be guys out there with issues. I am telling you the issue is resolved in 20-30 min road course sessions. What sort of racing are you talking about and do you have a way for me to see who those people are exactly? I'd like to talk to them.
    You're being a blind fanboy now. The N54 isn't the roadcourse motor the S65 is give it a rest. You're fighting a stupid uphill battle and don't even see how little ground you have to stand on.

    Perhaps you should talk more about how gearing isn't a factor when discussing motors, lol.

  8. #833
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    Let's stop trying to educate me on what torque multiplication does guys, please
    No you clearly need it as you don't get why a motor with a higher redline will have higher torque multiplication. Please, amuse us all, explain it.

  9. #834
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
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    LOL - dude, this is hilarious. You understand the REASON behind the high revving design of the S65, or other NA S motors, right?
    No he doesn't get it. He mentioned tuning for shorter gearing in the N54 to even this out LOL.

  10. #835
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
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    If you knew what the Continental Tire series was. You would understand why I am using it as a comparison.
    He just doesn't understand, he won't understand. He doesn't understand real racing versus a side by side pull.

    It's like trying to explain the difference between a filet mignon and a big mac to a child. All the child understands is they both fill you up, not how each goes about it.

  11. #836
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
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    I've put a TON of miles on our DCT VF620 E92 and it's just the most badass street car I can think of. With a tire change it can run 10sec 1/4 mile or whoop up on cars 3x its price at the road course.
    Oh no, according to a couple fanboys 10's with a blower is weak.

    I don't even get what the N54 owners are prancing around about when the S65 beats them to every milestone. The S65 holds all the records. And without turbos.

  12. #837
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
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    So I learned something new. Turner uses S62 because Grand Am only allows the S62.
    I thought this was common knowledge?

  13. #838
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    its a race series, i got it. its not publicly owned cars. the ones that private citizens buy and drive on the road.. so you right, i dont see why you keep bringing it up
    It's brought up because they just use the stock S65. Go race with a stock N54 and see how you do.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    i supposed suspension, weight, driver, and transmission have zero to do with it.. imagine a wolrd where the s65 made decent power.. oh man..
    Imagine a world where you were capable of reading comprehension.

  14. #839
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amclint Click here to enlarge
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    Was just thinking to myself, I wonder how much faster/slower the M3 would be with the 5.0 or the 6.2 from the 'Stang/'Maro ? /runsandhides

    *Just looked and it seems like the LS3 is ~450lbs, and so is the S65, with the Coyote 5.0 coming in around 430lbs.
    How much faster would an F430 be with an LS7?

  15. #840
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    What's uncommon is the fact that they do not allow anything but the S62. It's common knowledge to say Turner was using the S62 but no one knew the true reason so I asked them. Whoever mentioned reliabilty is wrong. Unless youre talking about the riley built e92 for rolex.
    Honda CBR 1000RR, Superbike Supply, Arrow, HRC, BMC, Lee's Cycle, Galfer, EBC, Revzilla, AXO, Dainese, Scorpion Helmets

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  16. #841
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    If the M3 needed more power it would have came with it!!!
    The M3 is chosen over all its competition with the motor it has. Why?

  17. #842
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    right, the topic, according to you, is that the s62, and s54 are superior to the s65.. oddly, thats nowhere near what was said..
    I'm sorry, you're just not making sense.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    whats with you and this class warfare? where did i say for "displacement"? its an V shaped 8 cyl.otor.. thats the class.
    Oh, I see the problem. Hold on everyone, this is the issue. Someone doesn't understand what displacement is.

    Here, hold on, let me help you:

    Click here to enlarge

    See, this is basic engine discussion. There is a thing called displacement. Do you how when engines are compared they go by displacement category? Notice how they do not go by if it has a V and 8 cylinders? Want to know why? Because there are a myriad of different combinations. It's ok that you did not understand this, we all learn at different rates.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    DAMN!! WAAAAAY MORE POWER STOCK, AND ASSLOAD MORE TUNED!!?? HOW SO?
    How so? Well, first of all, you need to learn what you are discussing.

    You see, the C63 AMG Black Series has an M156 that includes the internals from the M159 V8 in the SLS AMG. The C63 Black Series base price is $105,875. Now, if you were to take a higher end M3, say a GTS, you would have a far more comparable result.

    So, it's ok, you didn't understand what you were saying and did not understand you were not comparing apples to apples. Also, the standard C63 you mentioned taking from whatever wheel to 450 does not apply as it does not have the same motor internals.

    I hope this is clear for you now. Although I doubt you'll get it.

  18. #843
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    Lost Marine,

    The GS-class E92 M3s are based on actual street cars. We purchased used M3s and completely stripped and rebuilt them into racecars. The cars use the factory-original bodywork with upgraded brakes, coil over suspensions, bigger wheels and tires. With the car stripped of all street trim, it is are several hundred pounds lighter than a street car.
    Chassis/Body
    Chassis BMW M3 unibody
    Layout front engine - rear wheel drive
    Body factory original sheetmetal, Grand-Am spec rear wing
    Weight 3300lbs
    Engine
    Type BMW S65 V8
    Engine Management Bosch Motorsport
    Intake stock airbox
    Exhaust stock manifolds, cat-delete, Borla Racing mufflers
    Rev Limit 8300 RPM
    Transmission & Clutch
    Flywheel & Clutch OS Giken 2-Disc Racing Flywheel/Clutch
    Suspension
    Front Independent, double-pivot; coil over spring-shock
    Turner Motorsport Race Camber/Caster Plates
    Adjustable sway bar
    Rear Independent, 5-link; coil over spring-shock
    Adjustable sway bar
    Brakes
    Front StopTech Trophy 4-piston calipers
    380mm rotors
    race pads
    Rear StopTech Trophy 4-piston calipers
    350mm rotors
    race pads
    ABS Ate Mk IV Racing ABS System
    Wheels & Tires
    Wheels Forgeline EV1R 18x10
    Tires Continental ExtremeContact, 275/35-18
    Honda CBR 1000RR, Superbike Supply, Arrow, HRC, BMC, Lee's Cycle, Galfer, EBC, Revzilla, AXO, Dainese, Scorpion Helmets

    Honda Grom, most fun you'll ever have on 2 wheels.

  19. #844
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
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    The GS-class E92 M3s are based on actual street cars. We purchased used M3s and completely stripped and rebuilt them into racecars.
    He doesn't know this.

  20. #845
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    So, the M3 Turner uses is irrelevant because it has off the shelf brakes, coilovers, tires, shed some weight, and has an exhaust. Because street car?
    Honda CBR 1000RR, Superbike Supply, Arrow, HRC, BMC, Lee's Cycle, Galfer, EBC, Revzilla, AXO, Dainese, Scorpion Helmets

    Honda Grom, most fun you'll ever have on 2 wheels.

  21. #846
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    I'm sorry, you're just not making sense.



    Oh, I see the problem. Hold on everyone, this is the issue. Someone doesn't understand what displacement is.

    Here, hold on, let me help you:

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...01/Vjgo1-1.png

    See, this is basic engine discussion. There is a thing called displacement. Do you how when engines are compared they go by displacement category? Notice how they do not go by if it has a V and 8 cylinders? Want to know why? Because there are a myriad of different combinations. It's ok that you did not understand this, we all learn at different rates.



    How so? Well, first of all, you need to learn what you are discussing.

    You see, the C63 AMG Black Series has an M156 that includes the internals from the M159 V8 in the SLS AMG. The C63 Black Series base price is $105,875. Now, if you were to take a higher end M3, say a GTS, you would have a far more comparable result.

    So, it's ok, you didn't understand what you were saying and did not understand you were not comparing apples to apples. Also, the standard C63 you mentioned taking from whatever wheel to 450 does not apply as it does not have the same motor internals.

    I hope this is clear for you now. Although I doubt you'll get it.
    If they're compared using displacement then how are you comparing the N54 to the S65? LOL or was that about torque multiplication again? ROFL

  22. #847
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    If they're compared using displacement then how are you comparing the N54 to the S65? LOL or was that about torque multiplication again? ROFL
    I mention the M3's displacement advantage. It has a displacement, curve, redline, AND gearing advantage on top of all of this. Get it?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
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    The GS-class E92 M3s are based on actual street cars. We purchased used M3s and completely stripped and rebuilt them into racecars. The cars use the factory-original bodywork with upgraded brakes, coil over suspensions, bigger wheels and tires. With the car stripped of all street trim, it is are several hundred pounds lighter than a street car.
    Here is the problem. They don't follow racing, they simply don't know what they are talking about. Like I said before. There are forum members that have modified their M3's way beyond what is allowed in Continental Tire series. If LM actually went to a race, he would be shocked how stock the vehicles are.

  24. #849
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
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    If LM actually went to a race, he would be shocked how stock the vehicles are.
    He'd also be shocked when those "weak" S65's run circles around his more power one...

  25. #850
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    What is the fact? You aren't showing any facts. You really are hurting yourself as you are appearing incredibly ignorant and just somewhat plain stupid to everyone.

    C5 Z06 stock dyno, M3 matches it in power despite not having 5.7 liters:

    http://www.germanboost.com/images/im...1dad0cd3-1.jpg

    Here's a stock 6.2 liter LS2 out of a CTS-V:

    http://www.germanboost.com/images/im...Baseline-1.jpg

    Here's an E39 M5 S62 with modifications, this is a 5.0 liter V8, the M3 matches it in power with 4.0 liters completely stock:

    http://www.germanboost.com/images/im.../evo_ss2-1.jpg

    Here's a hemi 5.7 liter dyno, the S65 makes more power:

    http://www.germanboost.com/images/im...3BestRun-1.jpg

    Here's a Mustang Cobra 4.6 liter V8, look at how much more power the S65 is making despite its displacement disadvantage:

    http://www.germanboost.com/images/im...tsaedyno-1.jpg

    Here's a B7 RS4 which is the actual competition, not even worth mentioning in comparison:

    http://www.germanboost.com/images/im...3c9fb0_b-1.jpg

    So what are you talking about? The M3 has more power than a whole host of V8's. Actually, all of them being larger. If you want more power, the architecture supports it in then some. Don't you understand that if a smaller motor is making more power than larger motors it must be a fairly good design? And the M3 is making more power than some MUCH larger motors.

    What you are looking for is the S85 V10 in the M3 for naturally aspirated performance. Well, that just isn't possible because it would step on the toes of the M5/M6. BMW did not produce the car with straightline aftermarket performance in mind. However, if you are into that the motor is more than capable of holding its own unless 600 whp on stock internals isn't quite enough. If it isn't, what is?

    The problem isn't the S65 v8, it's you.
    I think the better comparison would be s65 vs v8's of other manufactures circa 2007+.

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